When China’s BYD recently overtook Elon Musk’s Tesla as the global leader in sales of electric vehicles, casual observers of the auto industry might have been surprised.
But what’s caught other carmakers around the world off-guard is something else about BYD, which is backed by Warren Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway: its low prices.
“No one can match BYD on price. Period,” Michael Dunne, CEO of Asia-focused car consultancy Dunne Insights, told the Financial Times. “Boardrooms in America, Europe, Korea and Japan are in a state of shock.”
BYD can keeps its costs low in part because it owns the entire supply chain of its EV batteries, from the raw materials to the finished battery packs. That matters because a battery accounts for about 40% of a new electric vehicle’s price.
Of course nobody can match BYD, they don’t just own the supply chain the Chinese government subsidizes every part in their supply chain. The Chinese government wants to crush foreign competitors. And before you say that Tesla gets subsidies, it’s no where near as extensive as the subsidies Chinese EV manufacturers get.
And don’t underestimate, that Human Right Violations are a competitive advantage, too. You don’t even need to argue with slave labor from Uygurs, but not allowing unions and having really low labour standards brings the costs down.
Is that why license plates are so cheap in the US?
What does the government subsidy per vehicle work out to?
So China investing in their manufacturing capabilities are resulting in better prices to customers. Western subsidies result in better paychecks for management or act as a feedback loop in the form of lobbying.
Uh… yeah? China beats nearly everyone on price but you don’t go there for quality and durability.
The American car companies haven’t exactly been stellar with regards to quality, reliability, and safety lately either.
Lately?
My VW-built EV seems pretty high quality. China and USA aren’t the only game in EVs.
Get Yourself an European car??? That’s where you go for quality
Then get yourself a Japanese car. That’s where you go for reliability.
Depends on the make and model.
Mazda non turbos are very reliable. My 2014 Mazda 2.5l only ever needed oil changes, tranny fluid changes and now at 130k miles I have to do the front control arms. My VW 2010 Passat wagon 2.0tsi needs constant maintenance, like carbon cleaning, water pump dsg fluids, pcv and so on, but I have 200k+ miles on it with no oil burning and original suspension parts.
tranny
Woah woah we don’t use those words here buddy
Didn’t the Japanese car industry only just finally jump in the EV game?
I think toyota and hyundai are in the game now
They are, they just wasted a lot of time with Hydrogen tech instead building up their EV capabilities
Strange how that reputation persists even when they tak, a car made by someone else and put their name on it.
Maybe you haven’t looked into just how badly Teslas are made, it’s become a meme.
Oh, I find that even more hilarious. But that’s a Musk issue, not a place of manufacturing.
Actually, that’s also a place of manufacturing issue. Apparently teslas made in China are higher quality than teslas made in the US.
Eg. https://insideevs.com/news/381527/chinese-tesla-model-3-better-than-american/
That view is unfortunately out of date. Many Chinese products are of equal or superior quality to their global counterparts. Think Lenovo laptops and OnePlus smartphones. Chinese stuff can be cheap and high quality.
Then it’s got to be what the person below said: beating the hell out of their workers, poor conditions and benefits, stuff like that.
You are one hundred per cent correct. There’re a million things you can criticise Chinese manufacturing for but universally poor quality isn’t one of them
One of the reasons these commodities can get so cheap is because the true cost is obfuscated through the vicious exploitation of labor at every step of the chain.
We may not have paid the full cost of the product, but those who were directly involved in their fabrication certainly did.
Lenovo has lost all sense of reputation for me after the whole superfish fiasco.
In my own experience trying the waters for a business importing and selling LED Light Bulbs from China, they’re a mix of little crappy companies and large more well established ones and the larger ones are perfectly capable of designing and making good products but due to the market pressure for “make it as cheap as possible” end up mainly cutting down on component quality and using cheaper designs to make it cheaper.
Sure, the tiny companies are generally crap and the local culture (at least in Electronics, and at the time which was a decade ago) was to expect things to be cheap and break down often, but the larger companies are professional and can actually make quality products, its just that they generally are very weak in branding so can’t really get people to pay them for quality, hence end up either mainly competing on price or working as suppliers for non-Chinese companies which are little more than Brand-management outfits (which is pretty what all big name Brands in the West are nowadays - managers of one or more famous brands, not creators of superior products).
I’ve heard the exact same thing before: Chinese manufacturers will build to whatever quality you pay for, but almost everyone just asks for the absolute cheapest. The profit margins on the absolute cheapest quality are better than competing with other countries who can also produce higher quality goods.
Yeah but lots more Chinese stuff is cheap shiny trash. If there’s a way to lie and cut a corner they’ll ,do it…not that America would be any different but they dont make anything here anymore.
That’s true but these cars aren’t. There are consumer protections in China. They just tend to be a lot less noticeable.
How are the cars on the privacy front?
Probably rubbish. There is no such thing as digital privacy in China.
If you get the windows tinted nobody should be able to see you inside.
They r very private, everything you do stays between you and
governmentGod.
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Lenovo is mostly American. The Thinkpad division was bigger than Lenovo when they bought it. Many of the directors and teams are based in the USA.
There is nothing unfortunate about being able to buy products that are both cheap and high quality.
Lol Lenovo laptops are cheap shit and One plus make the single worst phones I’ve ever seen.
That’s a pretty unfortunate viewpoint. At least in the corporate world, Lenovo laptops have a decent reputation for reliability (read: last long enough to where the replacement cycle is economical). Where I last worked IT, the lifespan of a Lenovo laptop was four years. That doesn’t mean that they break after four years, but just that we recycle and replace them with a new computer after that. That seems to be average for a corporate laptop.
Calling them “cheap shit” means you’re either uninformed and unfamiliar or you hold your standards far higher than the average computer buyer.
Oh I know the corporate world loves the idea of Lenovo laptops.
They’re cheap and can easily run web apps and office. All that most people need them for.
If you have to run any software of consequence though, they’re simply not up to it.
I run software of consequence and have no issues with performance, heat or general functionality. You’ll need to cite some evidence to back up your claim.
What do you consider “software of consequence”? I worked for a mid-size municipal government. We had hundreds of users (or at least hundreds of Active Directory accounts). Everyone used Lenovo laptops. We had city planners running ArcGIS on them, the engineers at the public works department planned roads and sewage lines on them, HR calculated payroll on them, the council used them for their meetings, the municipal court staff used them for managing filings and tickets, and the police department used them to issue said tickets.
If none of that is “software of consequence”, then what the goddamn fuck is?
I believe if you look a second time the person you replied to has become someone who replied to them.
I think we’re mixing up the consumer grade Lenovo laptops (cheap crap) with Lenovo Thinkpads (business grade and built like a tank). We use a lot of Thinkpads and they’re good - nice even, and they survive a lot of abuse.
Both Lenovo and OnePlus are garbage. Out of all the shitty companies and you go to those two for an example of quality?
Sources or stfu
👌👍
That’s what the British car industry said in the 60s and 70s about Japanese cars. Everyone bad mouthed anything made in Japan as being poor quality.
The Japanese succeeded through good products and their domestic rivals (in Britain) being arrogant, xenophobic and letting standards slide thinking they were great and couldn’t be beaten.
I’ve a Japanese Honda CRV (ironically built in UK) and a Chinese built MG5 EV. The EV is best built car I’ve owned in 35 years.
Many established car brands are going to disappear Tesla, I believe, being one.
I once read that the failure of British industrial policy to engage labour as a long term competitive edge instead of a dispensable short term concern saw Germany overtake British car makers. Germany dealt with labour strikes more comprehensively by engaging labour in policy structures. Like including Labour representatives in boardrooms.
I wonder how this may reflect on Chinese / Western competitiveness.
Found the piece: https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-23406467
I wonder how this may reflect on Chinese / Western competitiveness.
Sounds like it’s almost a 1:1 copy of what happened with the Brits.
For whatever reason, English speakers are easily-duped into thinking non-English speakers can’t compete.
As if Tesla was famous for its quality and durability either.
They produce a lot of quality and durable products in China. Apple and Tesla are both producing there, as do many thousands of other companies.
Quality and durable (produced under slave labor)
Do you have any proof of that? I’ve seen people say the same thing about Adidas and Nike, yet I have friends working for their factories and have never seen or heard of such a thing.
The BYD cars they sell in the West are pretty decently build. I’d be more worried about the aftersales services. Chinese electronics companies always have shitty customer service. Like Lenovo and Huawei. And since a car always needs some repairs during its lifetime I will never buy an EV from a Chinese brand unless they have proven to have good aftersales service.
This is why I love my Toyota - only recently brought my first Mazda after 8 or so Toyota.
Daewoo. Had a gf that owned a Daewoo. It was a car, lol. Only real problem was we had to drive an hour and a half to get the thing serviced.
You gotta be a special kind of innocent to think Americans make quality automobiles.
All the side said was that it is cheap Chinese shit and nothing about MERICAN vehicles.
Sweden makes quality automobiles. Both their brands were/are good.
One was destroyed by GM, the other belongs to Geely.
BYD is better quality than the shit Stellantis puts out
furiously typed into their Chinese Assembled IPhone…
South Korea Samsung…
Samsung phones are largely assembled in Vietnam. It looks like they’re one of the few phone companies not relying on China though.
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Depends on what you are buying and the price you pay.
People who have bought them seem happy. That looks like they have comparable value for money.
BYD builds a higher quality and more durable car than Tesla.
So where would you go for that?
Is this another case of subsidizing the product to sell the data? Information over each individuals driving habits, audio from the car, connection to the phone. Could be valuable to the CCP.
That it is happening is the issue, foolish to think that it is only the CCP that would be interested in doing this and not say the largest military industrial complex in the world known for over extending and threading on the rights of people across the globe.
Louis Rossman was making a video about cars in the US spying on you though, everyone wants that data.
Therefore chances are that our kids will be fed up with it and will be driving cars made by Mozilla? Cool.
Are these even street legal in the US? Our safety standards are obscene. Air bags alone cost 5k.
It’s why Tata never released a vehicle here.
Another example of America costing loads of money for little to know benefit.
Yeah! Airbags suck! Wait, what?
Clown take if I’ve ever seen one lol
But America bad! If America has airbags then airbags bad, too.
No not the airbags, the safety standards being “obscene”, cost prohibitive and not yield good results.
So if American standards are preventing additional competition it should be because they have a very high standard which should bare out in terms of road and pedestrian deaths and injuries. It does not. Therefore the “obscene” standards are another example of poor results to cost.
What a silly thing to say. On what basis have you decided they don’t yield good results?
Not really conclusive as there have been increases in speeding and drunk driving that cause total accident numbers to go up. A more relevant stat would be fatality or injury rates per accident.
You’ve changed your tune from it being silly to needing more granular data.
Pedestrian deaths are on the rise and decent safety regulations could impact speeding and drunk driving.
Per capita probably isn’t a good way to measure this.
Car deaths should probably be by miles driven.
Jesus what is going on in Russia
Sounds like what the Oceangate CEO said about industry safety requirements for submersibles.
I’m saying they’re not fit for purpose, America has a shit ton of road and pedestrian deaths. The safety regulations don’t do enough.
this comment has “little to know”
Also why all the new cars suck.
New cars suck because planned obscelensce has been catered to by regulations and industry.
Safety standards are not bad, they just don’t have decent standards in America.
If you want people to buy new cars every year wouldn’t you make the new cars look different? More exiting or whatever? We used to have awesome fins on the back of cars now we just get a shiny grill. “planned obscelensce” doesn’t force them to make cars that all look the same. That’s safety regulations.
Fins and spoilers are cool but like if their removal saves lives then I’m all for it.
Cars all looking the same is because of the tightening of supply chains, it is cheaper to make everything apply to as many models as possible.
I can’t remember which brand it is, whichever supercar brand is under VW, but they have parts shared with golfs and audis. This efficient but doesn’t make for huge variations.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
When China’s BYD recently overtook Elon Musk’s Tesla as the global leader in sales of electric vehicles, casual observers of the auto industry might have been surprised.
But what’s caught other carmakers around the world off-guard is something else about BYD, which is backed by Warren Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway: its low prices.
While BYD cars are not yet a common sight on American roads, many experts believe it’s only a matter of time, despite the high tariffs that help keep them at bay for now.
But BYD is planning to export much cheaper models to markets around the world, including Europe, South America, and Southeast Asia.
In November, House lawmakers warned about Chinese giants like BYD “gaining a back door to the U.S. market” through the southern neighbor.
BYD also has the advantage of its founder and CEO Wang Chuanfu, a relentless cost-cutter whom the late Charlie Munger—Buffett’s long-time partner at Berkshire—described in one of this final interviews last year.
The original article contains 556 words, the summary contains 160 words. Saved 71%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
This is why Americans hate China. It’s legitimate competition for them.
Proven an idiot in a single sentence. Good work, man.
This is good, nice to finally have competition.
Tesla is extremely overrated (as can be seen by them repeatedly lowering prices now that any competiton exists).
And the BYD is a nice little car. I test drove one and was quite surprised how many features it had.
Hopefully others will follow suit. The EV market up till now has just been overly expensive cars unfortunately which hurts adoption.
I drove an atto 3 and a Mercedes gla, both for an extended weekend, same destination. I would always pick atto. Better features, easier to use and, most important, actual room to store stuff for the family. Especially the head and legroom in the back, it’s not even funny how cramped the back seats in German cars are. We have been hustled.
