cross-posted from: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/17869503
I know I’m going against the grain here, I’m obviously no Harris lover, but also I’d prefer to be allowed to continue existing. If that’s controversial in leftist spaces then maybe I don’t want to spend any more time in leftist spaces.
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“I’m voting for the party that doesn’t actively want to kill me”
“Pfft, classic shitlib take”
I’m tired, boss
I’ve literally had someone ask me what makes me think I deserve to live more than Palestinian kids.
This is where we’re at.
They say as if their position is any better for Palestinians either.
Don’t you see, they have absolved themselves of responsibility by making themselves a bystander. Actually pretty smart. When “they” come for us and start looking at the voters rolls these guys will get a pizza party while the rest of us go to gas chambers.
Don’t worry, these are the same people that are going to reclaim the levers of power through force. It just has to get bad enough for the rest of us so that we have no choice but to defacto join their side.
Pretty considerate of them, really. We oppressed them by suggesting they make their vote count for something. They put the country in turmoil and now depend on us to bail everyone out. Fairs, fair.
The poor man’s version of the rich doomsday ‘I’m gonna be king of my own private island!’ lunatics.
Right, so that’s why we should let the guy who would kill Palestinian kids and trans people win. Equality
I don’t like the idea of claiming a whole group I disagree with is comprised of bots or paid agents trolling to create division, but at this point, the only plausible alternatives to that are either those people are having a severe martyr complex, or just are so overly privileged that they are divorcing themselves from reality and don’t/can’t comprehend the consequences of what they’re advocating, essentially treating this whole thing like a sports game.
Or maybe both, and are trying to throw trans people, black people, women, etc. under the bus to fuel their martyr complex in their stead.
Telling people in danger that their attempts to save themselves are contemptible is nothing but cynical callousness.
It’s children whining about how life is unfair but instead of actually trying to do something about it now, they’d rather feel smugly superior as they do fuckall and “wait for the revolution” or whatever.
Do I believe positive change is quick or easy? Fuck no. It’s hard work and it takes a ton of us working together. I harbor no illusions that my own singular voice will ever matter on a large scale, and I will happily take up my arms to defend the rights of those whose only crime is existing while lgbtq+/poc/whatever, but I’m gonna vote and campaign and everything I can do in the meantime.
Whether we’re headed for a cliff as a species or not is irrelevant, I don’t feel the need to hit the gas or sit back while mocking the people who are trying to stop the bus.
Yeah, people who see the long list of minorities that would be negatively affected by a Trump presidency and insist that there is no difference between the candidates are telling on themselves: Who gets the presidency would make no difference - for them. And they have no empathy for anybody else.
This 100%, I actually own firearms in the event I might have to defend myself from a fascist takeover. BUT I’D REALLY RATHER NOT THINGS COME TO THAT. I don’t want to ever have to use them, so you can bet your ass I voted for Harris to try and prevent that scenario as much as possible.
Very true. Just, the weird thing is I’m not sure if this comment is intended as pro-Harris-vote or pro-Palestine-boycott.
I mostly lurk and prefer to not get involved in politics, but GOOD GOD I’M SO GLAD I’M NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO FEELS THIS WAY. It’s so exhausting.
What sucks is that voting isn’t swearing a blood oath that turns you into a slave of neoliberalism and prevents you from doing direct action: you can do both. Voting isn’t going to save Palestinians (and it’s a bitter pill to swallow, I know), but it’s going to save lots of other vulnerable minorities (who never really asked to be born in the imperial core!), and still provide breathing room for direct action that can help Palestine.
Like… even if you don’t care about the safety of trans people, pragmatically speaking it’s immensely easier to organize as leftists in a neoliberal regime than it is in a fascist regime. Just look at what happened to the KPD when they proclaimed “first Hitler, then it’s our turn”. (Yes, the SPD backstabbed them during Weimar - RIP Rosa Luxemburg - but that pales to the Nazis basically rounding them all up and sending them to the gas chambers!) I don’t want history to repeat. Please don’t let it repeat.
Your comment exposes what it is that’s so deeply disturbing about this wave if Leftist Nihilism. They’re basically saying “if we can’t save everyone, then we might as well all die.”
This. I vote for the best outcome my vote could achievably help to bring about and lets not forget about primaries and getting in better canidates from the get go. But voting is only one thing.
It’s as if voting wasn’t the one single thing you could do as a citizen.
It IS the only one that can’t be twisted by media interpretation, demonized and attacked with military and police, or straight up ignored.
Well, except for all the ways that voting is broken and doesn’t work. Gerrymandering and the electoral college and what not. And how your options are conservative neoliberal genocide supporter or outright neo fascist.
You couldn’t vote for an actual progressive candidate if you wanted to. The entire American political system is designed to prevent that exact thing from happening.
The details of who you vote for are another discussion. I’m simply saying voting is the only thing you can do that is guaranteed to contribute to the direction the government goes in, no matter how small. All other activity is important, but not guaranteed to result in anything.
I dont think voting itself is harmful on it’s own, no. I do understand why Palestinian Americans will not vote for people committing acts of genocide against them. And more to the point, I just recognize that this is a death spiral of western democracy right? The Democratic party is unwilling to do literally anything that would interrupt the neoliberal status quo of America. This aligns them with conservatives. They fight back against workers rights and protect the military industrial complex. The Democratic party has done shockingly little to ever actually fight back against Trumpism and modern fascists in America. They could have done significantly more, but many of those actions would jeaopardize american neoliberalism. It’s their priority to preserve it.
What I’m saying is, even if Kamala wins, we will be back here in 4 more years. Each time losing more ground to fascists because elected officials will do little more than token gestures to stop them. I hope she is elected, and I hope I’m wrong and she does an aboutface and codifies reproduction rights, codifies queer rights, and dismantles the supreme court and the electoral college. Biden could have done these things too.
And does voting stop you doing the other things?
It does if you treat it like the media does, billions of dollars in campaign coverage in the year leading up to election day and then nothing until it’s time to do it all over again.
It a pretty easy and very impactfull thing to do… so go vote first and the do whatever else you are suggesting after.
Fascism is bad for everyone. This is not a choice between two minority groups. This is a choice between democracy and fascism.
The only way to help the Palestinians is to vote for Kamala. Kamala wants a ceasefire. Trump has made it clear he wants Israel to finish what he started.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/04/politics/trump-israel-comments/index.html
This is what accelerationism gets us. A bunch of people who are willing to let every group of people burn, because they have been fooled into thinking that things can only get better by making them worse. Things can always get worse. We have to make things better for them to get better.
If tankies and accelerationists cared about Palestinians or trans people or anyone they would vote for Kamala without a second thought. Many of these people are from the US. They can’t handle that they’re from a country that isn’t morally perfect, so rather than try to fix, they want to see it burn to the ground. It’s a kind of state of unhappy consciousness where their country’s misdeeds make them feel as if they have blood on their hands by association.
Most people recognize that beyond our vote and activism we have very little say in the day to day operations of our country. We can sleep at night by acting in a way that is useful to accomplish our goals. Tankies and accelerationists cannot. So the course of action they propose, doing nothing to impact the election out of protest, is not useful to us.
I made another post and comments about this in leftymemes to go against some of this rhetoric everyone is pushing, and wouldn’t you know… my comments are being removed. I’m glad the left is suppressing trans voices now, I feel so seen 🥰
Yup, turns out I’m proper banned xD
Honestly idgaf anymore, hope they have fun in their echobubble.
Trans tankies be like:
They sure have a lot more faith in the Democrats’ moral compass than we do.
Do you have more faith in Trump’s?
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Did trump drop out of the race? Because from what I gather it’s still a very close race that can end up being decided by the supreme court.
The fix has been in since Biden dropped out, all that remains is to see what sort of stochastic terrorism Trump’s supporters get up to once reality starts settling in.
The US voting system is undemocratic and a huge percentage of the population seems to be out of their mind. Trump winning is still a very real danger.
The only part of that you’re wrong about is the last bit. Trump winning isn’t the danger, the threat is his tantrum after he loses.
Okay, with that confidence I suggest you put a couple of grand against Harris winning.
That doesn’t make any sense.
“Put money against someone winning.” = “Betting that someone will win.”
Or what didn’t make sense?
It would be great if she was actually campaigning on helping those in red states and not just saying well that’s their law deal with it
It would be great if people would help build some enthusiasm for Kamala. Trump wants to round up homeless people in camps. Republicans want to remove protections against discrimination in the workplace for trans people so they end up homeless. This is an easy choice. If you care about anyone vote for Kamala, because we will all be worse off under Trump. edit: typo
It would also help if she or the dnc would campaign on protections rather than just saying we’re not trump.
https://www.teenvogue.com/story/why-wont-democrats-kamala-harris-embrace-trans-rights-oped
It’s unfortunate that there’s a kernel of truth in both! Obviously red guy is bad and if you’re thinking in the medium-term of the next five years (the context of the election) then it really is that simple.
I do want to emphasize though that there is a lot that has to be done outside the ballot box. Even if you just want status quo, a Harris government would need to be badgered heavily to actually pass the sort of legislation needed to mitigate the imminent threat of climate change (in addition to most other policy changes you’d want or need).
Climate Man isn’t going to swoop down from the sky and save the world. Normal people need to see politics as a proactive, regular part of adulting. If you’re planning on voting this year, consider also having the goal of (if able) attending a protest or donating to political organizations you agree with this (or next) year! Lets make government suck less c:
Obviously, the real fight only starts once the election is over. But right now the order of the day has to be defeating Trump because everything and I mean absolutely everything will get a lot worse if he wins. Harris will only implement progressive policies if there is grassroots pressure for her to do so. Trump will send the military to deal with grassroots pressure.
If by grassroots pressure you mean “massive social upheaval and widespread protest and civil unrest” then yeah.
But she’s always going to support the Palestinian genocide. She’s said so herself. There’s no circumstances where she will stop funding and arming the IDF.
The Biden administration has given an ultimatum threatening to stop military aid if aid to northern Gaza doesn’t increase, with a deadline shortly after the election.
They’ve already murdered in large excess of 50 thousand people, likely over a hundred thousand when accounting for missing and undocumented deaths. Nearly a year ago they opened machine gun fire on a crowd of people trying to get flour. It’s been a genocide this entire time. He has not stopped military aid. Kamala herself has literally said,
“I will always ensure Israel has the ability to defend itself against Iran and Iran-backed terrorist militias. My commitment to the security of Israel is unwavering,” “When we think about the threat that Hamas, Hezbollah… Iran present, I think that it is without any question, our imperative to do what we can to allow Israel to defend itself against those kinds of attacks,”
She is open about the fact that there do not exist any circumstances where she will stop funding the IDF and the actions of the IDF. Israel has claimed to be “defending itself” for the past year. The Palestinian genocide is what they mean by defending themselves.
I’m trans too. I am horrifically afraid of what a fascist American government can and would do to us. This entire election cycle has been a literal nightmare. We can’t just pretend reality is different though, we can’t just pretend that the Democratic party have not themselves been active participants in the genocide of a colonized ethnicity in the middle east. It’s depressing but it’s the truth. They’ve blocked the ICJ from taking action, they’ve blocked UN motions to take action, they’ve consistently worked against recognizing the state of Palestine, and they have funded and armed a genocide.
The day after the votes are finished counting, drag is going to become Harris’ sworn enemy. Every day until that happens, drag is going to do everything drag can to help her. It’s not about being right, it’s about doing right.
I hadn’t clocked that drag was using “drag” to refer to drag, and thought drag was saying that drag as a hobby was going to become the sworn enemy of Harris. Was super confused for a minute.
I agree, but my main point is that when I went to vote it took me 11 minutes. 11 minutes to but my voice in the election. And that does not have to be mutually exclusive with political action, I have been involved in action groups (though not as of lately due to me focusing on my studies, but if a Palestine protest starts on my campus you can bet I’ll be joining it), and I’m not making the argument that voting is all you should do. Far from it. But, it is something that is quick and easy to do and if enough people do it, it could prevent a fascist government that makes change far more difficult than it is now.
Libs: Voting is just the start
Also libs: If you dont blindly support Kamala you’re a Russian bot, also how dare you protest it makes me very uncomfortable. Shut up and let us sign this bipartisan legislation with fascists.
If you are not voting for Kamala, you are supporting Trump. That logic is pretty easy to follow.
I wish I lived in a world that simple.
Communists wish they had the power and influence that liberals keep implying that they have.
How does this even relate to the post?
