Israeli soldiers raiding a hospital in northern Gaza desecrated the bodies of deceased patients with bulldozers, let a military dog maul a man in a wheelchair, and shot multiple doctors even after vetting them, according to allegations by staffers and patients at Kamal Adwan hospital, where Israeli forces spent eight days last week.
The comparison with the Nazis doesn’t help anything and just makes the discussion a quagmire of historical misanalogies.There are dozens of other cruel and horrible examples from history to compare with, pick another one that does not specifically trigger Jewish sensibilities.
Hell, if you absolutely need to use Germany as an example, use what they did in WW1 in Belgium.
Equating all Jews with the monsters committing genocide is… What’s that word again? Oh, antisemitic, right. People simp for Israel so hard they become actual antisemites.
Removed. Antizionism and antisemitism are NOT the same thing. Being against the political policies of Israel is NOT the same as hating a people in general.
I’m sorry, you didn’t notice how a number of people with British accents or who are from America just go out and say KHAMAS. Like, are you kidding me? Do you say “KHELICOPTER”? Hamas’ name in English follows the Arabic tradition of ح (ḥā) sound being turned into the “h” letter in English and pronounced like a normal h, and yes, it’s normal to say “Khamas” if your mother tongue is modern Hebrew, but I think you aew still oblivious to the fact that Israeli propaganda wants to “other” Palestinians (by calling them “Arabs”, for example). In this case, it’s by deliberately mispronouncing the English name of “Hamas” (any person interested enough in a thing usually learns to pronounce it correctly, lots of people in the UN said “Hamas” regardless of their mother tongue when they spoke proper English) but Israeli officials want to degrade Hamas, make Hamas sound bad through and through, and often when you hear KHAMAS, you also hear “KHAMAS ISIS” even though no self respecting expert would make such a comparison. But that all starts to look terrible when you realize that Hamas in Israel means all of the Gazan government. The IDF has bombed governmental buildings, stopped all social work, and obstructed police that were trying to rescue people from under the rubble because those police are “KHAMAS”. Any social worker or nurse at a public hospital is KHAMAS. etc.
So when I say KHAMAS, please don’t think of me mocking a Jewish Israeli speaking on the news about the atrocity their witnessed on October 7th. Instead, think of [this man who’s quite a piece of work] (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LPnI6jD-k8I)
Yes. People don’t like the extremist and murderous policies of that state under Netanyahu. While antisemitism is still a problem worldwide, objecting to Israel’s treatment of Palestinians is not in itself antisemitism. The accusation of antisemitism has been used politically to deflect criticism of these policies.
And of course such criticism doesn’t mean people like Hamas either. That’s another accusation that has been trotted out to deflect criticism.
I don’t like Netanyahu’s extremist policies either.
Referring to “Zionists” as ‘Nazis’ is nevertheless antisemitic. Zionism is simply the belief in the right of self-determination of the Jewish people to a state of Israel in their historic homeland. It was created through international law by partition, just as many others were, but is unique in having its right to exist questioned.
If you don’t like the people in charge, that’s fine. That’s not anti-Zionist. Claiming that Israel has no right to exist, that it should be destroyed and the Jews either dispersed or killed (by one means or another; this is also the inevitable outcome of a one-state ‘solution’), is antisemitic.
Arguing that there’s only one definition of Zionism or that yours is the correct one is disingenuous at best and antisemitic at worst. I personally prefer to just believe you’re uninformed given your inability to cite a source that supports your claims.
Additionally, Israel is by no means unique in having its right to exist questioned. I’m not sure where that particular bullshit talking point came from but it’s sort of racist? Ukraine, for example, is waging a war for its right to exist in the face of Putin trying to restore the USSR. Georgia too. Maduro recently said Venezuela should just conquer Guyana. Taiwan has been under threat from mainland China for its entire existence, itself having a pretty similar story to Israel where an outside group moved in (Chiang Kai-Shek and the Kuomintang), who proceeded to control the indigenous population (who had already been through many rounds of occupation).
Finally, you’re making a huge leap when you claim that people calling out the self-proclaimed Zionists controlling the government of Israel for committing war crimes equates to calling for the death of all Israelis and all Jewish peoples. Anyone can criticize the Israeli government, doing so is neither antisemitic nor is it wishing death on anyone.
Do you think your definition of Zionism matches what others believe about Zionism? Do you think your definition is the one applied today? Seems like most Zionists policies are racist towards Palestinians.
That’s a good clarification. I wonder how often, when people endorse statements like that, they simply don’t understand that Zionism embraces a lot more than Israel’s far right wing or think through the implications. Sometimes, for sure, it’s a deliberate style of messaging from antisemites.
Israel is an ethno-state, people fighting on behalf of Israel want to eradicate Palestinian people. This doesn’t have anything to do with Jewish people in general. To conflate Israel with Jewish people is itself antisemitic.
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Early Israeli zionists tried a few times to ally with the Nazis.
there were no israeli zionists at the time, I’d say just zionists. please correct me if I’m wrong
They were Israelis after the war though, and they lived the rest of their lives as Israelis, so it make sense to refer to them as such.
And y’know they considered themselves Israeli before the state even re-existed.
Fun fact: even Zionists called it Palestine before they changed the name.
ok, I get your point. thank you
Zionism is the new Nazism.
Treat Zionists as you would Nazis.
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The comparison with the Nazis doesn’t help anything and just makes the discussion a quagmire of historical misanalogies.There are dozens of other cruel and horrible examples from history to compare with, pick another one that does not specifically trigger Jewish sensibilities.
Hell, if you absolutely need to use Germany as an example, use what they did in WW1 in Belgium.
I understand it hurts, but the ethno-state is the common dream of Hitler and Israel. Facts are facts.
Weird that open Jew-hatred like this is tolerated here
You’re all over this thread defending Israel and now you’re equating Jewish people with the Israeli government. Bad faith arguing.
Equating all Jews with the monsters committing genocide is… What’s that word again? Oh, antisemitic, right. People simp for Israel so hard they become actual antisemites.
Removed by mod
Removed. Antizionism and antisemitism are NOT the same thing. Being against the political policies of Israel is NOT the same as hating a people in general.
This argument is bad faith. Or you’re just plain wrong. You can pick.
Criticism of Israel ≠ Jew hatred.
Unless you mean to say that, for example, every Jew in JVP is committing Jew Hatred on a daily basis.
why do you mock jews accent then?
Nope, just the people who use KHAMAS to differentiate themselves from the rest, it’s a signal.
who are the rest? what signal?
I’m sorry, you didn’t notice how a number of people with British accents or who are from America just go out and say KHAMAS. Like, are you kidding me? Do you say “KHELICOPTER”? Hamas’ name in English follows the Arabic tradition of ح (ḥā) sound being turned into the “h” letter in English and pronounced like a normal h, and yes, it’s normal to say “Khamas” if your mother tongue is modern Hebrew, but I think you aew still oblivious to the fact that Israeli propaganda wants to “other” Palestinians (by calling them “Arabs”, for example). In this case, it’s by deliberately mispronouncing the English name of “Hamas” (any person interested enough in a thing usually learns to pronounce it correctly, lots of people in the UN said “Hamas” regardless of their mother tongue when they spoke proper English) but Israeli officials want to degrade Hamas, make Hamas sound bad through and through, and often when you hear KHAMAS, you also hear “KHAMAS ISIS” even though no self respecting expert would make such a comparison. But that all starts to look terrible when you realize that Hamas in Israel means all of the Gazan government. The IDF has bombed governmental buildings, stopped all social work, and obstructed police that were trying to rescue people from under the rubble because those police are “KHAMAS”. Any social worker or nurse at a public hospital is KHAMAS. etc.
So when I say KHAMAS, please don’t think of me mocking a Jewish Israeli speaking on the news about the atrocity their witnessed on October 7th. Instead, think of [this man who’s quite a piece of work] (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LPnI6jD-k8I)
History is tolerated. And I’m talking about Israel no Jews. Maybe another few years back to school could help?
Israel, the Jewish state created after the Holocaust, and in which half of all Jews live, you mean?
Yes. People don’t like the extremist and murderous policies of that state under Netanyahu. While antisemitism is still a problem worldwide, objecting to Israel’s treatment of Palestinians is not in itself antisemitism. The accusation of antisemitism has been used politically to deflect criticism of these policies.
And of course such criticism doesn’t mean people like Hamas either. That’s another accusation that has been trotted out to deflect criticism.
I don’t like Netanyahu’s extremist policies either.
Referring to “Zionists” as ‘Nazis’ is nevertheless antisemitic. Zionism is simply the belief in the right of self-determination of the Jewish people to a state of Israel in their historic homeland. It was created through international law by partition, just as many others were, but is unique in having its right to exist questioned.
If you don’t like the people in charge, that’s fine. That’s not anti-Zionist. Claiming that Israel has no right to exist, that it should be destroyed and the Jews either dispersed or killed (by one means or another; this is also the inevitable outcome of a one-state ‘solution’), is antisemitic.
Arguing that there’s only one definition of Zionism or that yours is the correct one is disingenuous at best and antisemitic at worst. I personally prefer to just believe you’re uninformed given your inability to cite a source that supports your claims.
Additionally, Israel is by no means unique in having its right to exist questioned. I’m not sure where that particular bullshit talking point came from but it’s sort of racist? Ukraine, for example, is waging a war for its right to exist in the face of Putin trying to restore the USSR. Georgia too. Maduro recently said Venezuela should just conquer Guyana. Taiwan has been under threat from mainland China for its entire existence, itself having a pretty similar story to Israel where an outside group moved in (Chiang Kai-Shek and the Kuomintang), who proceeded to control the indigenous population (who had already been through many rounds of occupation).
Finally, you’re making a huge leap when you claim that people calling out the self-proclaimed Zionists controlling the government of Israel for committing war crimes equates to calling for the death of all Israelis and all Jewish peoples. Anyone can criticize the Israeli government, doing so is neither antisemitic nor is it wishing death on anyone.
Do you think your definition of Zionism matches what others believe about Zionism? Do you think your definition is the one applied today? Seems like most Zionists policies are racist towards Palestinians.
That’s a good clarification. I wonder how often, when people endorse statements like that, they simply don’t understand that Zionism embraces a lot more than Israel’s far right wing or think through the implications. Sometimes, for sure, it’s a deliberate style of messaging from antisemites.
For 75 years of history, Zionism had been killing Palestinians, it doesn’t matter who is in government, seemingly.
Exactly, the state who does not represent all Jews. That one.
No israel the Nazi state in which the Zionist Nazis live.
The Jews live elsewhere.
Again, this is antisemitic.
Again, how?
You need a good dictionary my friend.
Israel is an ethno-state, people fighting on behalf of Israel want to eradicate Palestinian people. This doesn’t have anything to do with Jewish people in general. To conflate Israel with Jewish people is itself antisemitic.