I am currently looking at DM’ing for my first time as well as being the introduction for PF2e to our group.

We’ve played for a bit, started with 3.5e, and moved to 5e, however we never felt satisfied playing 5e.

We are looking now at Pathfinder 2e to continue our group and as I am the one who brought it up, it has fallen to me to DM, though I never have before. I’ve only played 1e. The group seemed to like the emphasis on group cooperation versus solo rushing that 5e seems to encourage.

Group would be 5 players, one forever DM who is glad to play for once.

I am looking through different books to try and find an introductory adventure for us to feel out PF2e. One-shots were considered but did not feel like they would teach us as much about PF2e compared to a small adventure.

Does anyone have some advice for a first time DM who is looking to bring their group from 5e? Any adventures in mind? I had been eyeing the kobold king as well as Rusthenge.

Thanks! :3

  • Kichae@wanderingadventure.party
    3·
    12 hours ago

    spitfire@pawb.social Yes, CotKK was rewritten for PF2e, but and it runs fine, but it’s still a port, you know? It has some rough edges. From the players’ side of thing, I’m sure it would be just fine, but as a new GM… Let’s just say, it was the first adventure I bought, and as a new GM I waited to play it until I felt more comfortable with the system. There’s nothing wrong with it, but there are places where you can feel how it’s not representative of the system. If that makes sense.

    If you can get your hands on a cheap used copy of Menace under Otari, even if you don’t want to run it, it’s worth reading through as a GM. It really is purpose built for introducing the mechanics of the game, and is quite short.

    There’s no pressing need to restrict first party books, or even third party series like BattleZoo or Team+ sources, but the splat books do offer a lot of options which can cause analysis paralysis. Because the system doesn’t have the same optimization meta as other, similar products, the expansiveness isn’t really an issue, but players often get bogged down in the details. People who are used to playing the optimization meta, even if they want to stop, sometimes can’t help themselves. I include myself in that group. I’m hesitant to suggest restricting books, though, because I think some of the more interesting classes are in splats: Guardian and Commander in War of Immortals, Magus in Secrets of Magic, and Thaumaturge in Dark Archive.

    A couple of more things everyone at the table should be aware of, though, now that I’m thinking about it:

    • The game has some fairly distinct tiers of play, even if the boundaries between them are somewhat fuzzy. This is especially noticeable from levels 1 - 5, which is what I like to call the “deadly things are deadly” tier. HP is low, AC is low, and critical hits are common. Not only is this where the game can feel quite a bit deadlier than people may be used to, but people who are used to being able to solve the “sharp, pointy objects hurt” problem with basic class options will often find themselves feeling a little impotent.
    • Because Level is Power, and Power is Level, people who are used to established caster/martial power gap tropes may be caught off guard by the class balance, particularly before casters gain access to Rank 3 spells (i.e. Level 5). On-level enemies are real challenges to casters, not canon fodder, and at early levels they can be real threats. On top of that, the numbers are balanced around save spells failing as the default outcome (but a failed save spell also does half damage), which often leaves new magic users feeling less cool than they expected. This starts to go away starting around Level 5, once they start to exit the “deadly things are deadly” tier and begin to enter the “fantasy hero” tier, but until then… Let’s just say that people have had FEELINGS.
    • Spitfire@pawb.socialOPEnglish
      1·
      11 hours ago

      I suppose I’m used to really broken builds being accomplished even early on from previous 3.5e and PF1e experience which is why I gravitated towards potentially locking out other books. Glad to hear that isn’t really the case or needed for PF2e.

      I will see if I can find a used copy of Menace/Troubles to read through or if all else fails check my local game shop. Maybe the library might….they’ve had 5e books before.

      We’re all going into this expecting something different than what we’re used to and the re-balancing is going to be a big part of it.

      I’m still reading through the core books myself to more familiarize myself with everything. I guess I’m just anxious as well as I want it to be a fun experience.

      • Kichae@wanderingadventure.party
        3·
        7 hours ago

        spitfire@pawb.social Yeah, the system just shuts down that level of min/maxing. There are no builds in the game that break the encounter math assumptions, and if someone thinks they’ve found one, they’ve either read something wrong, or discovered somethinf that will be in the next round of errata.

        Rolls are always done vs a DC, which means there’s no worry of a low-level creature invalidating a high level creature by rolling high vs a low row (or vice versa). That kind of wild luck has been stripped out.

        Bonuses of the same type don’t stack, so you can’t throw Guidance, Bless, and Inspire Courage on someome to get them a +3 bonus to a roll. They’re all status bonuses, and for each bonus type you tax the MAX, not the SUM, of all that have been applied, so the total bonus from those 3 spells is +1. This limits the easy, cheesy math-hack solutions.

        DCs are level based, and frow quite large, which means players get very very good at tackling old challenges, but there are some challenges that are functionally impossible to overcome at any given level. Natural 20s have well defined behaviours in the game, so there’s no “automatic success” cultural norm that breaks this.

        It’s important to note, the level that you use for the level-based DCs is the challenge’s level, not the party’s. The leveled DC table is used in designing creature and hazard stat blocks, and when creating a leveled challenge on the fly. Many new GMs to the system misunderstand the table and instead constantly scale every challenge in the game with the party.

      • HubertManne@piefed.socialEnglish
        2·
        10 hours ago

        Hey I missed you already talked with someone on the beginners box but wanted to add that yeah the system is tight and you can power game but it does not make a character that much more powerful. Even with all the expansions I still see like rangers as being the top damage dealers early on and thieves later on but again not that big a difference. Im by no means the best for finding game breaking things. fighter with druid archetype is one and the gnome flail was another but again they were not that good. You could just not do free archtype to begin with but many people like the extra flexibility. The incapacitation trait with spells keep them from being insta boss kills spell wise.