• BloodBrandy@ttrpg.networkEnglish
    3·
    1 day ago

    So this could theoretically be a Tome Warlock’s path to immortality?

  • MimicJar@lemmy.world
    23·
    2 days ago

    Yes.

    You create a magical restraint to hold a creature that you can see within range.

    While imprisoned, the target doesn’t need to breathe, eat, or drink, and it doesn’t age.

    Until the spell ends, the target is also affected by one of the following effects of your choice:

    The secondary effects in the case of immunity to Unconscious just wouldn’t do much but the target is still under a magical restraint.

    Now technically the magical restraint that holds the creature doesn’t mechanically cause any particular condition. So depending on the definition of “held”, this may or may not be a problem.

    However it is worth noting that the spell also says the condition to end the spell must be something the DM agrees to AND is likely to happen in the next decade. So it won’t be a cakewalk to be suddenly immune to aging.

    • Archpawn@lemmy.world
      3·
      1 day ago

      Now technically the magical restraint that holds the creature doesn’t mechanically cause any particular condition.

      Who said it holds the creature? It’s created to hold the creature, but I’ll decide not to and sell my magical restraint to help offset the costs of the spell.

      However it is worth noting that the spell also says the condition to end the spell must be something the DM agrees to AND is likely to happen in the next decade.

      In 2014, that was optional. On the bright side, now immunity to aging etc. are straight up effects of the spell, instead of something that happens as long as you’re affected by the spell, making it so an elf would only be affected by those secondary conditions if they’re affected by those secondary conditions. And also now you can just recast it the next day if they pass the save.

      The simplest would be that it breaks if the next coin flipped lands heads. You’ll have to recast it a few times, but once it sticks, it’s permanent.

      You could recast it each time it breaks, but it has a costly component. It’s probably cheaper than Clone, except you could just Wish for Clone and get it for free, so not really.

      I also notice that this breaks an exploit I had for truely defeating an opponent. In 2014, you could cast Hedged Prison, then destroy the special component, and there’d be no target to use Dispel Magic on. But I think I found another way to do it. First, cast Demiplane, then for 364 days cast Mordenkainen’s Private Sanctum inside the demiplane. It can fill up to a 100-foot cube, and Demiplane is only a 30-foot cube, so it fills the whole plane. Then capture your target and cast Stone to Flesh on them (you can do this earlier, but you’ll have to be careful storing them). Then you bring them to the demiplane, and have a Glyph of Warding cast Private Sanctum one last time after you leave. Nobody will be able to find them, and even if they could, it’s blocked from interplanar travel. As far as I can tell, nothing short of Wish can free them.

      To make it a bit more secure, you could True Polymorph them into an object. That way, you can’t use Gate to open a portal there. They’d need Wish to grant them immunity to Private Sanctum to actually enter the portal, but they still won’t know where to open it. Though if they know the nature and contents, they could use Demiplane.

      Another possibility is to use a Glyph of Warding to cast Demiplane so that you can’t use Demiplane to open a portal there. Then use Gate to leave on the 364th day with a Glyph of Warding ready to cast the last Private Sanctum.

      • jounniy@ttrpg.networkOP
        1·
        1 day ago

        Good one. I also noticed that this version of imprisonment makes you immune against every instance of the spell for 24 hours. So a paranoid BBEG might just have underlings (like some divination wizards) to buff the hell out of them in the morning, then use something like another servant or a glyph of warding to trigger a casting of the spell to make themselves immune for the day. Incredibly unnecessary, but very funny.

        But yes I think “high likelihood” really makes what was a situational spell into a very boring spell to use for players. You’re better off just killing the target now, as killing them permanently is more reliable.

        • Archpawn@lemmy.world
          2·
          1 day ago

          The earlier version made you permanently immune if they cast it again. Presumably it meant that if they cast it on you again it won’t work, but that’s not what they said. If you want immunity, you have your underlings cast it until you succeed, then have them cast it one more time (not necessarily on you).

          Which also reminds me of a loophole in Ceremony (Wedding). A creature can only benefit from the rite again if widowed. But once you’re widowed, there’s no limit on how much you can benefit from it. It also never actually says you’re marrying the person (presumably, that part would be up to the law), and a widow could just keep casting it. You could also interpret “widowed” to mean a thing that happened to you instead of a state you’re in, so you can even Revivify them and keep using it.

          • jounniy@ttrpg.networkOP
            1·
            12 hours ago

            Okay I didn’t even consider those two. I don’t get how casting it one more time after you fail would help though, it why failing would help in general.

            • Archpawn@lemmy.world
              1·
              10 hours ago

              The target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or be bound by the spell; if it succeeds, it is immune to this spell if you cast it again.

              So if they succeed, and you cast the spell again, they’re immune to this spell.

    • Skua@kbin.earth
      7·
      2 days ago

      Now technically the magical restraint that holds the creature doesn’t mechanically cause any particular condition. So depending on the definition of “held”, this may or may not be a problem.

      I love the idea of it being a magical ankle monitor. Kinda sucks that you can’t teleport the whole time though

    • jounniy@ttrpg.networkOP
      6·
      2 days ago

      You don’t have to specify. It says “You can specify” so you are free not to specify anything.

      Beyond that, yes. I’d say even by RAW the slumber is supposed to be the restraint and no other restraint is listed so if not being put to sleep is enough to still get benefits you’re good to go.

      • Archpawn@lemmy.world
        3·
        1 day ago

        It used to.

        During the casting of the spell, in any of its versions, you can specify a condition that will cause the spell to end and release the target.

        But the 2024 version says:

        When you cast the spell, specify a trigger that will end it.

        • jounniy@ttrpg.networkOP
          1·
          1 day ago

          Ah I see. I was talking 2014, but yeah the means you have to make use of some other loopholes.

          • Archpawn@lemmy.world
            1·
            1 day ago

            I was also talking about it when I made the post you made this meme from. But not intentionally. I didn’t know the changes.