I read it. I’m really not sure what I’m meant to be talking from it. I think a lot of Marxists don’t understand what capitalism is.
“Its very structure, therefore, deprives us of the ability to decide collectively exactly what and how much we want to produce, on what energic basis and through what kinds of social relations. It deprives us, too, of the capacity to determine how we want to use the social surplus we collectively produce; how we want to relate to nature and to future generations; how we want to organize the work of social reproduction and its relation to that of production. Capitalism, in sum, is fundamentally anti-democratic. Even in the best-case scenario, democracy in a capitalist society must perforce be limited and weak.”
Capitalism is entirely based on the the free hand of the market not on votes. People effectively vote with money. If people want more pears instead of apples, then more pears are planted than apples. The free hand of the market works without votes and infact is a lot lot more efficient than voting on everything or on trying to control these choices from a central government. Its fundamentally why (among other reasons) capitalism is so much more efficient than anything else.
Something that seems horribly missed by certain people that don’t understand capitalism is externalities. Most economists want these corrections made to prices. They want ways to fix the tragedy of the commons, they don’t want factories everywhere polluting they want the best use of capital, land and labour.
People get to vote on the limit of business. They can choose to have green spaces around cities and there is absoultely nothing a business can do about it. All the wealth made from capitalism that wouldn’t exist without it is taxed by the government and the government can use that money to better effect. Lots of countries and cities have green spaces and high environmental protection. Capitalist want the government to pay for education and the government wants to pay for education because it gets more money back from taxes.
If I have missed something please let me know. But I’m getting tired of people on this site no understanding basic economics so I’m not sure how long this conversation will continue.
There are so many engrained assumptions here that would take a long time to undo, a lot of reading, and they take a long time to digest. I went through the journey, and thought like this once, until I realised there was a lot more to this than this narrative that is classically taught. I’m sorry. We should leave it here, maybe you’ll find it eventually. I appreciate your consideration of the text. It’s a good starting place. Ps, I was not the one who down voted.
I wouldn’t call what has been tried communism as it was never a dictatorship of the proletariat, but I’m not convinced by orthodox communism either. That is also missing a whole lot of geopolitical nuance to what actually happened. Either way, what we have isn’t working and it’s time to find something new. Lemmy isn’t a good place for theory anyway, not that any other social media is much better.
https://wcfia.harvard.edu/publications/centerpiece/fall2018/transcript_jodidi11-5-2018
It’s worth the read. I promise.
Great read. I’m bookmarking this. Thanks.
I read it. I’m really not sure what I’m meant to be talking from it. I think a lot of Marxists don’t understand what capitalism is.
“Its very structure, therefore, deprives us of the ability to decide collectively exactly what and how much we want to produce, on what energic basis and through what kinds of social relations. It deprives us, too, of the capacity to determine how we want to use the social surplus we collectively produce; how we want to relate to nature and to future generations; how we want to organize the work of social reproduction and its relation to that of production. Capitalism, in sum, is fundamentally anti-democratic. Even in the best-case scenario, democracy in a capitalist society must perforce be limited and weak.”
Capitalism is entirely based on the the free hand of the market not on votes. People effectively vote with money. If people want more pears instead of apples, then more pears are planted than apples. The free hand of the market works without votes and infact is a lot lot more efficient than voting on everything or on trying to control these choices from a central government. Its fundamentally why (among other reasons) capitalism is so much more efficient than anything else.
Something that seems horribly missed by certain people that don’t understand capitalism is externalities. Most economists want these corrections made to prices. They want ways to fix the tragedy of the commons, they don’t want factories everywhere polluting they want the best use of capital, land and labour.
People get to vote on the limit of business. They can choose to have green spaces around cities and there is absoultely nothing a business can do about it. All the wealth made from capitalism that wouldn’t exist without it is taxed by the government and the government can use that money to better effect. Lots of countries and cities have green spaces and high environmental protection. Capitalist want the government to pay for education and the government wants to pay for education because it gets more money back from taxes.
If I have missed something please let me know. But I’m getting tired of people on this site no understanding basic economics so I’m not sure how long this conversation will continue.
There are so many engrained assumptions here that would take a long time to undo, a lot of reading, and they take a long time to digest. I went through the journey, and thought like this once, until I realised there was a lot more to this than this narrative that is classically taught. I’m sorry. We should leave it here, maybe you’ll find it eventually. I appreciate your consideration of the text. It’s a good starting place. Ps, I was not the one who down voted.
Communism has been tried and failed exceptionally.
Hopefully something else comes along but I think it will just be a form of capitalism with higher taxes and UBI.
I wouldn’t call what has been tried communism as it was never a dictatorship of the proletariat, but I’m not convinced by orthodox communism either. That is also missing a whole lot of geopolitical nuance to what actually happened. Either way, what we have isn’t working and it’s time to find something new. Lemmy isn’t a good place for theory anyway, not that any other social media is much better.
Lemmy is a great place for theory.
I’m waiting for the day someone suggests I viable alternative to what we have now
They will be born of need, when things break down. Such is the way of these things.
400 years and going strong. Might have to wait a while.