I definitely understood, yes. Hamas is not a “resistance org”, and they don’t have a “few extremists”. Every member of Hamas is an extremist who is willing to torture and murder Palestinians who challenge them.
That is not a resistance group. They are all extremists, by definition, because Hamas is a Jihadist Islamist group, even if you take Israel completely off the table.
In their own words:
“Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes,” Hamas said in its first statement in the late 1980s.
Support for the Palestinian people neither requires, nor implies, support for Hamas, and support for Hamas is, definitionally, not support for the Palestinian people.
I would imagine any group of people who are experiencing a genocide, to consider any group of people who are fighting against their oppressors, to be resistance movements. Likewise for any proponent of the interests of those committing the genocide, to consider any opposing group as terrorists, regardless of whose goals are advanced by the group existing.
It’s Israel committing a genocide. Hamas attacking Israel. And Palestinians being genocided.
Focusing on the second part, and making a big deal of whether or not the subjective and pretty much meaningless “terrorist” label applies to Hamas, is what’s gotten quite tiresome. It smells so much like the “🙉… but do you condemn Hamas?”-rhetoric.
I would imagine any group of people who are experiencing a genocide
Hamas took over the country in 2007, after Israel had left Gaza. They then promptly canceled elections forever, declared Jihad, and began torturing dissidents to death.
They have not only actively fought a 2-state solution and secularization, but have opposed Israel normalizing relations with neighbors, because their goal is the eradication of Israel.
Moreover, Hamas has stolen aid money, impeded and corrupted aid groups, and restricted access to medical supplies and food to solidify their own power.
There is no defense for Hamas, and referring to them as a “resistance group” is both inherently dishonest and empowering to the terror organization.
This discussion is not and has never been about Gazan’s - this discussion is about OP calling them a “resistance group with some radical elements” which they are not.
They took over by winning the election. And they repudiated further elections because the response wasn’t an attempt to work with a clearly moderated Hamas in a post war setting, but to blockade them and conduct assassinations and air strikes. When Israel demonstrates a clear physical veto on Palestinian elections then any election result is moot. You want to paint them as bloodthirsty warlords but that just ain’t the story. As for controlling aid, so does every other government in the world.
Just out of curiosity what did they say in 2005? or 2018? Or did you want to perpetuate the idea that once someone is radicalized there can never be peace? It sure does make the world simpler, but the bloodshed never ends that way. And that’s abhorrent in and of itself. Hamas absolutely became more moderate and had Israel assassinate their leadership and blockade Gaza in response. Since then Israel has assassinated several doctors and teachers under your idea that anyone associating with Hamas is a horrible no good person. This along with the blockade has made it impossible for Hamas to govern responsibly, and they are in fact acts of war.
I firmly believe everyone even emotionally aligning with Hamas has some very serious issues. I never condoned the killing of any civilian, and never will.
Disgust with Hamas’s atrocities does not imply that I support the deaths of civilians in any way.
I definitely understood, yes. Hamas is not a “resistance org”, and they don’t have a “few extremists”. Every member of Hamas is an extremist who is willing to torture and murder Palestinians who challenge them.
https://www.newsweek.com/hamas-tortured-me-dissent-heres-what-they-really-think-palestinians-opinion-1857169
That is not a resistance group. They are all extremists, by definition, because Hamas is a Jihadist Islamist group, even if you take Israel completely off the table.
In their own words:
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/doctrine-hamas
Support for the Palestinian people neither requires, nor implies, support for Hamas, and support for Hamas is, definitionally, not support for the Palestinian people.
I would imagine any group of people who are experiencing a genocide, to consider any group of people who are fighting against their oppressors, to be resistance movements. Likewise for any proponent of the interests of those committing the genocide, to consider any opposing group as terrorists, regardless of whose goals are advanced by the group existing.
It’s Israel committing a genocide. Hamas attacking Israel. And Palestinians being genocided.
Focusing on the second part, and making a big deal of whether or not the subjective and pretty much meaningless “terrorist” label applies to Hamas, is what’s gotten quite tiresome. It smells so much like the “🙉… but do you condemn Hamas?”-rhetoric.
Hamas took over the country in 2007, after Israel had left Gaza. They then promptly canceled elections forever, declared Jihad, and began torturing dissidents to death.
They have not only actively fought a 2-state solution and secularization, but have opposed Israel normalizing relations with neighbors, because their goal is the eradication of Israel.
Moreover, Hamas has stolen aid money, impeded and corrupted aid groups, and restricted access to medical supplies and food to solidify their own power.
There is no defense for Hamas, and referring to them as a “resistance group” is both inherently dishonest and empowering to the terror organization.
This discussion is not and has never been about Gazan’s - this discussion is about OP calling them a “resistance group with some radical elements” which they are not.
They took over by winning the election. And they repudiated further elections because the response wasn’t an attempt to work with a clearly moderated Hamas in a post war setting, but to blockade them and conduct assassinations and air strikes. When Israel demonstrates a clear physical veto on Palestinian elections then any election result is moot. You want to paint them as bloodthirsty warlords but that just ain’t the story. As for controlling aid, so does every other government in the world.
You may want to look up what Hamas did to the opposition party, but I doubt you’ll be swayed, because what you believe is pure propaganda.
I cannot believe you can excuse terrorism in your mind so easily. Support for Palestinians in no way implies you need to support Hamas.
But are you willing to condemn Israel for its genocide?
If they were committing genocide, sure.
No. Not if. Do you condemn Israel for its very real and ongoing genocide, including acts of state sponsored terrorism?
If this were real, sure
But there will be Gazans in 2025, 2030, etc. ideally in their own state.
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Just out of curiosity what did they say in 2005? or 2018? Or did you want to perpetuate the idea that once someone is radicalized there can never be peace? It sure does make the world simpler, but the bloodshed never ends that way. And that’s abhorrent in and of itself. Hamas absolutely became more moderate and had Israel assassinate their leadership and blockade Gaza in response. Since then Israel has assassinated several doctors and teachers under your idea that anyone associating with Hamas is a horrible no good person. This along with the blockade has made it impossible for Hamas to govern responsibly, and they are in fact acts of war.
I firmly believe everyone even emotionally aligning with Hamas has some very serious issues. I never condoned the killing of any civilian, and never will.
Disgust with Hamas’s atrocities does not imply that I support the deaths of civilians in any way.
Hamas has no interest in governing responsibly.
Sure you can believe that because you’ve spent 3 decades ignoring what they’ve actually said and instead listened to likuud propaganda.
One of us certainly believes propaganda.