• rodolfo@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        11
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        7 months ago

        there were no israeli zionists at the time, I’d say just zionists. please correct me if I’m wrong

    • acargitz@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      12
      ·
      7 months ago

      The comparison with the Nazis doesn’t help anything and just makes the discussion a quagmire of historical misanalogies.There are dozens of other cruel and horrible examples from history to compare with, pick another one that does not specifically trigger Jewish sensibilities.

      Hell, if you absolutely need to use Germany as an example, use what they did in WW1 in Belgium.

      • ShroOmeric@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        7 months ago

        I understand it hurts, but the ethno-state is the common dream of Hitler and Israel. Facts are facts.

      • Neato@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        27
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        7 months ago

        You’re all over this thread defending Israel and now you’re equating Jewish people with the Israeli government. Bad faith arguing.

        • lolcatnip@reddthat.com
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          8
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          7 months ago

          Equating all Jews with the monsters committing genocide is… What’s that word again? Oh, antisemitic, right. People simp for Israel so hard they become actual antisemites.

          • jordanlund@lemmy.worldM
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            7
            ·
            7 months ago

            Removed. Antizionism and antisemitism are NOT the same thing. Being against the political policies of Israel is NOT the same as hating a people in general.

          • Neato@kbin.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            5
            ·
            7 months ago

            Bad faith is trying to pretend that antizionism in 2023 is different to antisemitism.

            This argument is bad faith. Or you’re just plain wrong. You can pick.

              • المنطقة عكف عفريت@lemmy.worldOP
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                edit-2
                6 months ago

                I’m sorry, you didn’t notice how a number of people with British accents or who are from America just go out and say KHAMAS. Like, are you kidding me? Do you say “KHELICOPTER”? Hamas’ name in English follows the Arabic tradition of ح (ḥā) sound being turned into the “h” letter in English and pronounced like a normal h, and yes, it’s normal to say “Khamas” if your mother tongue is modern Hebrew, but I think you aew still oblivious to the fact that Israeli propaganda wants to “other” Palestinians (by calling them “Arabs”, for example). In this case, it’s by deliberately mispronouncing the English name of “Hamas” (any person interested enough in a thing usually learns to pronounce it correctly, lots of people in the UN said “Hamas” regardless of their mother tongue when they spoke proper English) but Israeli officials want to degrade Hamas, make Hamas sound bad through and through, and often when you hear KHAMAS, you also hear “KHAMAS ISIS” even though no self respecting expert would make such a comparison. But that all starts to look terrible when you realize that Hamas in Israel means all of the Gazan government. The IDF has bombed governmental buildings, stopped all social work, and obstructed police that were trying to rescue people from under the rubble because those police are “KHAMAS”. Any social worker or nurse at a public hospital is KHAMAS. etc.

                So when I say KHAMAS, please don’t think of me mocking a Jewish Israeli speaking on the news about the atrocity their witnessed on October 7th. Instead, think of [this man who’s quite a piece of work] (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LPnI6jD-k8I)

      • ShroOmeric@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        17
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        7 months ago

        History is tolerated. And I’m talking about Israel no Jews. Maybe another few years back to school could help?

        • Swarming@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          18
          ·
          edit-2
          7 months ago

          Israel, the Jewish state created after the Holocaust, and in which half of all Jews live, you mean?

          • floofloof@lemmy.ca
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            8
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            7 months ago

            Yes. People don’t like the extremist and murderous policies of that state under Netanyahu. While antisemitism is still a problem worldwide, objecting to Israel’s treatment of Palestinians is not in itself antisemitism. The accusation of antisemitism has been used politically to deflect criticism of these policies.

            And of course such criticism doesn’t mean people like Hamas either. That’s another accusation that has been trotted out to deflect criticism.

            • Swarming@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              14
              ·
              edit-2
              7 months ago

              I don’t like Netanyahu’s extremist policies either.

              Referring to “Zionists” as ‘Nazis’ is nevertheless antisemitic. Zionism is simply the belief in the right of self-determination of the Jewish people to a state of Israel in their historic homeland. It was created through international law by partition, just as many others were, but is unique in having its right to exist questioned.

              If you don’t like the people in charge, that’s fine. That’s not anti-Zionist. Claiming that Israel has no right to exist, that it should be destroyed and the Jews either dispersed or killed (by one means or another; this is also the inevitable outcome of a one-state ‘solution’), is antisemitic.

              • Pips@lemmy.sdf.org
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                8
                ·
                7 months ago

                Arguing that there’s only one definition of Zionism or that yours is the correct one is disingenuous at best and antisemitic at worst. I personally prefer to just believe you’re uninformed given your inability to cite a source that supports your claims.

                Additionally, Israel is by no means unique in having its right to exist questioned. I’m not sure where that particular bullshit talking point came from but it’s sort of racist? Ukraine, for example, is waging a war for its right to exist in the face of Putin trying to restore the USSR. Georgia too. Maduro recently said Venezuela should just conquer Guyana. Taiwan has been under threat from mainland China for its entire existence, itself having a pretty similar story to Israel where an outside group moved in (Chiang Kai-Shek and the Kuomintang), who proceeded to control the indigenous population (who had already been through many rounds of occupation).

                Finally, you’re making a huge leap when you claim that people calling out the self-proclaimed Zionists controlling the government of Israel for committing war crimes equates to calling for the death of all Israelis and all Jewish peoples. Anyone can criticize the Israeli government, doing so is neither antisemitic nor is it wishing death on anyone.

              • المنطقة عكف عفريت@lemmy.worldOP
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                5
                ·
                7 months ago

                Do you think your definition of Zionism matches what others believe about Zionism? Do you think your definition is the one applied today? Seems like most Zionists policies are racist towards Palestinians.

              • floofloof@lemmy.ca
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                7
                ·
                7 months ago

                That’s a good clarification. I wonder how often, when people endorse statements like that, they simply don’t understand that Zionism embraces a lot more than Israel’s far right wing or think through the implications. Sometimes, for sure, it’s a deliberate style of messaging from antisemites.

          • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            8
            arrow-down
            5
            ·
            7 months ago

            No israel the Nazi state in which the Zionist Nazis live.

            The Jews live elsewhere.

      • tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        7 months ago

        Israel is an ethno-state, people fighting on behalf of Israel want to eradicate Palestinian people. This doesn’t have anything to do with Jewish people in general. To conflate Israel with Jewish people is itself antisemitic.