• Victor@lemmy.world
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    11 months ago

    [Drops flyers with warning message saying “we will attack soon; flee, those who can!”]

    [Attacks the refugee camps, oh and also hospitals]

    100% assholes. 👌 Equal to or worse than the Russians, I swear to freaking God.

    • Dubito_Cogito@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      They have provided proofs about the hospitals… and also the refugee camp is a big city. it’s just called that

      • BradleyUffner@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        This wasn’t a hospital. They don’t a get a pass to bomb a refugee camp today because Hamas fighters hid in a hospital last week.

        • TserriednichThe4th@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          Hamas should stop hiding in refugee camps too…

          Extend the logic, come on.

          It is well known hamas hides among civilians. That is the main reason there is so much civilian collateral damage. Hamas themselves said it is their strategy ffs.

          • Snoozemumrik@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            And Israeli officials (Netanyahu, Gvir, Smotrich, etc.) have stated that their goal is genocide. How do you feel about that?

            • TserriednichThe4th@lemmy.world
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              11 months ago

              No they havent lmao.

              The worse netanyahu has said is that he prefers a one state solution and that hamas existing is useful in polarizing people towards that solution. That doesnt mean genociding arab muslims, because there are plenty in israel.

              But no person in israel with any substantial support believes in genocide.

        • TserriednichThe4th@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          They are both. How is that hard to understand? It is a decentralized organization that fits both roles depending on the faction.

  • Spacehooks@reddthat.com
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    11 months ago

    I see ads in TV that are pro Isreal now with Santa crying because of Hamas kidnapped people. I know it’s what about ism but not really moral high ground here when IDF literally wipes whole familes.

    • DreamlandLividity@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      Its not what-about-ism.

      Being accused of attacking civilians and saying the enemy is attacking civilians to divert attention is what-about-ism.

      Crying that the enemy is attacking civilians while you are also attacking civilians is hypocrisy.

      Calling out your own/allied government for attacking civilians and trying to hold them accountable even if the enemy attacks civilians as well is being a good person.

      • iquanyin@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        i’ve heard only about 4% of israelis support bibi now. it’s like saying all americans are (whatever) because of trump. every religion feels like “the ones” and every hard right leader is horrible and deadly.

        • BartsBigBugBag@lemmy.tf
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          11 months ago

          They don’t support him because he didn’t “secure Israeli safety”. From what I’ve seen, most people support the continuation of hostilities against Gaza, and many even support further occupation and restriction of rights for Gazans. A non-insignificant part of the population supports continued settlement in Palestinian territory, and the majority of the population have mandatory service in the IDF, where they will serve by perpetuating apartheid against the Palestinian people.

    • MeanEYE@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      They literally knew this was coming and attacked Israel anyway. They knew because the response was harsh and disproportionate last time and ten times prior to that. Blood is on both sides’ hands. Hamas hiding behind civilians is not helping either.

      I also understand their desire to fight oppression, but it’s obvious they can’t and will never be able to win war of any kind. Their fight must be done through different means.

      • DreamlandLividity@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        Bomb Hamas until you can see China through the crater, I really don’t care. But most people living in Gaza did not choose this and are just caught in the middle.

        I imagine you would not be happy if your whole apartment building with your family inside was bombed because your neighbor assaulted an officer.

        • MeanEYE@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          That’s my point, although not as cleanly stated. To me this whole thing is Hamas kicking hornets nest then running away and hiding while civilians get stung. And this repeats every few years. And no point has anyone sat down and thought: wait maybe this is a bad idea.

          • DreamlandLividity@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            Yeah, they are terrorists. They don’t care about civilians. Big surprise.

            The concerning thing is that Israel and US don’t seem to care about them either.

            • Dubito_Cogito@lemmy.world
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              11 months ago

              They are political party of Gaza. That’s why the recent ceasefire condition was for Hamas to leave Gaza

            • MeanEYE@lemmy.world
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              11 months ago

              The thing with terrorism is the moment you show weakness they will keep exploiting that and repeating what works.

              • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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                11 months ago

                You don’t fight terrorism with bombs though. You fight it by humanizing their victims, using police raids by high level units capable of reducing collateral damage, and fulfilling the needs of the population that feels oppressed enough to create terrorists.

              • Cosmic Cleric@lemmy.world
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                11 months ago

                The thing with terrorism is the moment you show weakness they will keep exploiting that and repeating what works.

                True, but how you show strength to counter that matters, especially to the civilians caught in the middle.

      • Llamalitmus@lemmy.ca
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        11 months ago

        I get what you’re saying. And might even agree with elements. But it is easy to say it’s futile to fight when you aren’t in a position to need to. Doing nothing in this case means resigning not just yourself to being under their oppression, and not even just your friends and family. It is resigning your entire culture to a slow painful death by attrition. They are losing more and more land, rights, and any hope of progress. Like… if someone is strangling you, do you fight back, or just resign yourself to it? And that’s before we even get into the fact that those complying and not fighting are still being killed. Those not fighting and wanting to leave were lured to slaughter. Not fighting is an illusory choice.

      • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        Yes, quite a few resistance movements use the oppressor’s harsh tactics against them. India and Ireland come immediately to mind.

      • Kalysta@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        If someone invaded your home, locked you in a cage, and then started casually murdering your loved ones while calling it “mowing the lawn”, you would also be doing anything you could to make it stop.

        Yes, Hamas knew this would happen, but for most people in Gaza, choosing to die hiding or choosing to die fighting is the only choice they get in life.

      • saze@feddit.uk
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        11 months ago

        I agree with most of what you said but you’re very much misunderstanding the point of resistance insurgencies if you think their aim is to “win” in the conventional sense, i.e. conquer and hold territory. Despite the propaganda, death and destruction, Hamas are fighting the IDF to a strategic standstill. Israel’s stated aim is the complete destruction of Hamas and they are nowhere near achieving it, which alone will be win enough in Hamas’ eyes and will strengthen them no doubt. One purported goal for Hamas was to inflict a situation so awful that there is no way the world could just return to normal after it, which I would argue will have happened by the time the dust blows over. They also aimed to stop Arab-Israeli diplomatic normalisation, which has been set back at least 20 years or so. Of the two belligerents, I would argue Hamas has actually been more successful in its aims.

      • davepleasebehave@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        it is sad. and a who city should not be levelled in response. that’s just common sense.

        which is obviously why there is a concerted and expensive campaign of you tube adverts to create a counter narrative to around 10,000 kids being bombed and killed.

      • chaonaut@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        Somehow, I get the impression that you aren’t about to argue that what has happened to the Palestinians is sad and that they should be fighting against the people who did it to them.

    • Cyborganism@lemmy.ca
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      11 months ago

      Aw man. My original comment was removed for incivility. Apologies to the mods. Thanks for not banning me on the spot. That’s appreciated.

      Gotta say it’s difficult to remain civil in the face of a genocide.

      What my original comment said, without the incivility, was:

      I hope Israel and it’s military end up at the international court at the Hague and go to jail for crimes against humanity and that the world finally tells Israel to back off and go back to the borders that were drawn in the 1967 UN Security Council resolution.

      • Seventhlevin@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        You are referring to the return of the “land for peace” idea from '67; but, Israel engaging in that peace process and returning said land (that was won by conquest during a defensive war in '48) merely resulted in the '69 war and '73 invasion. Since then, Arab leaders have completed a 180° about-face from their stated position of “no recognition, no peace, and no negotiations.” By beginning to normalize with Israel, they have also begun to remove the need for a “land for peace” process, in large part because of the land Israel has already given back.

        • Cyborganism@lemmy.ca
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          11 months ago

          Ok well I might have gotten confused over what was signed over which year.

          What I was basically trying to say is there was an agreement at some point over the land borders. I might have been the original ones or some other ones later. In any case Israel needs to revert what they’ve done and give the land back until they go back to that border that was agreed upon.

          Although, I doubt that even that will bring peace to the region after what they’ve done.

        • Cyborganism@lemmy.ca
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          11 months ago

          I wasn’t banned. My comment was deleted because I wasn’t very civil. Lots of f-bombs and stuff.

          I think it’s alright to try to encourage a more civil discussion where we can argue by challenging each other’s arguments without using profanity.

    • be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social
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      11 months ago

      fuck off and go back to the borders that were drawn in the 1967 UN Security Council resolution.

      Yeah I ran across this awhile ago posted by Björk, and have been wondering if it’s factual. Paints a bit of a different picture of the motivations of Palestinians in general if true:

      I’d be interested to see the 2023 version.

  • Clbull@lemmy.world
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    11 months ago

    At what point does this go from being a counter terrorist operation to a genocide?

  • Resol van Lemmy@lemmy.world
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    11 months ago

    The only world record you do not want to achieve without looking like a complete monster. And yet Israel managed to do just that.

    • sailingbythelee@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      That is not even close to the world record. Killing 250 people in a day isn’t good, obviously, but it is not even a rounding error compared to real warfare.

      Just considering conventional weapons, the firebombing of Tokyo on the night of 9–10 March, 1945 killed approximately 100,000 people.

        • sailingbythelee@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          I’m pretty sure this is a war. At least I’ve heard Israeli officials describe the current conflict as a war on Hamas. I don’t know of any war in which civilians aren’t negatively affected.

          Israel can’t really stop fighting Hamas yet. According to the BBC, Hamas is still receiving new weapons via their tunnel system. They apparently also have an extensive weapons manufacturing system within Gaza itself.

  • Colour_me_triggered@lemm.ee
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    11 months ago

    “with Palestinian authorities reporting that 250 people have been killed”

    Palestinian authorities (at least in Gaza) = Hamas. But I’m sure they have no reason to lie.

  • Venia Silente@lemm.ee
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    11 months ago

    Only 250 Palestinians in 24 hours? ngl, that sounds like rookie numbers for Israel.

    Come on guys, the Holocaust was proof that one can do better! Don’t aim to just be equal to the nazis, Israel; aim to surpass them!