• i_have_no_enemies@lemmy.worldOP
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    9 months ago

    i guess Palestinian propaganda is more valid than israeli one…?

    i don’t know who to trust anymore tbh, this war has weaponized sympathy to the point i do not know who should i give it to

    • Warl0k3@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      The thousands of dead innocents caught in the middle is where I’ve been keeping my sympathy. They seem to be the only ones suffering in this damn war.

        • floofloof@lemmy.ca
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          9 months ago

          And don’t forget that for everyone who dies there are more than two others injured, and many of these injuries will be life-changing. Plus the psychological trauma.

      • Zellith@kbin.social
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        9 months ago

        Exactly. Hamas is comprised of Palestinians, not all Palestinians are Hamas. It’s civilians dying to Israelis indiscriminate attacks.

        Fuck Israel. Fuck Hamas.

        • Deceptichum@kbin.social
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          9 months ago

          The only way to stop groups like Hamas from existing is to stop Israel from murdering and oppressing Palestinians and creating generations of trauma.

          Ones cause, the others effect.

          • Warl0k3@lemmy.world
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            9 months ago

            There’s all manner of explanations as to why this situation arose, but none of them change the root message here: Fuck Hamas, Fuck Israel.

            • DdCno1@kbin.social
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              9 months ago

              Quick question: Why Hamas, the government of Gaza, on one hand, but Israel as a whole instead of the Israeli government on the other?

              • Deceptichum@kbin.social
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                9 months ago

                Because Israel is a democracy, and the last time Gaza had an election it was before the majority of them were born.

              • Warl0k3@lemmy.world
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                9 months ago

                Because Israel is, despite everything else, still an actual fair democracy. The people of Israel voted for their leaders, and continue to support them. Hamas last had an election in what, 2006? And we have no idea if they support Hamas, there hasn’t exactly been an abundance of reputable polling done in Gaza lately.

                That gotcha kind of fell flat, didnt it

                • NoIWontPickaName@kbin.social
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                  9 months ago

                  I don’t think they were going for a gotcha.

                  I think they were trying to bring more awareness into play about blaming the government for what the government is doing, especially when we can all see all the protest that a lot of Israelis are doing.

                  Like you can not in any way group the “Not in My Name” and Bring Them Home crowds with the Likud crowd.

    • HubertManne@kbin.social
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      9 months ago

      neither. israel should not even be there but the whole thing started with a hamas attack (well not the whole thing thus point one)

        • DdCno1@kbin.social
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          9 months ago

          No, but it ended for the Palestinians as a political entity with their own agency that day. Future historians will cite this event as the one that sealed the fate of the Palestinians as the losers of this conflict forever. October 7 showed Israel that Palestinians can not be trusted to govern themselves, that the only way the Israeli state can ensure its safety is by having a tight grip over Palestinian affairs, like in the West Bank.

          I’m stating this as an observation, not as an expression of support of how Israel is conducting itself in the West Bank. However, I do believe that nothing Israel has ever done justifies the atrocities of October 7 and I sure hope that you were not trying to justify those either.

        • HubertManne@kbin.social
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          9 months ago

          exist as a nation. Put in place by fundamentalist religious types who want to show how the bible predicted this thing they caused to happen.

            • DdCno1@kbin.social
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              9 months ago

              I’m not sure if you are aware of this, but the persecution of Jews didn’t start with WW2 and neither was it limited to areas controlled by Nazi Germany. There are very good reasons why Jews wanted to return to their home country.

                • DdCno1@kbin.social
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                  9 months ago

                  These Jews legally bought the land. The expulsion of Arab Palestinians didn’t start until the Arab League declared war on Israel.

                • Kaboom@reddthat.com
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                  9 months ago

                  That land belonged to the Jews a thousand years before Islam took over

              • HubertManne@kbin.social
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                9 months ago

                yeah and im sure all us in the americas would be completely fine with a similar thing going on here and that was years that only come into the hundreds.

          • DdCno1@kbin.social
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            9 months ago

            I don’t even know where to start with a comment this absurd. The founder of the modern state of Israel was anything but a fundamentalist:

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ben-Gurion#Religious_belief

            Not to mention, even if he or any other of the leading figures of his time had been fundamentalists, how would this be a good reason for denying Israel the right to exist right now? Why should that be a criteria? The Palestinian leader at the time, Amin al-Husseini, was most definitely a fundamentalist by modern stadnards, so does this mean that a Palestinian state should not exist either?

            • HubertManne@kbin.social
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              9 months ago

              one person is not the reason israel came into being. it would never have made it without the fundamentalists pushing support for it.

              • DdCno1@kbin.social
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                9 months ago

                Can you describe who these supposed fundamentalists are supposed to be, how large this group and their influence was? Because it can’t be the Haredi, who were far too small and insignificant a group in 1948.

                • HubertManne@kbin.social
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                  9 months ago

                  You seem to think im just talking about jewish settler types whereas why that is a small portion of folks responsible for israels existence im talking about european and american financial and political supporters both jewish and christian. Its the christians in particular who wanted to artificially verify their prophecy.

                  • DdCno1@kbin.social
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                    9 months ago

                    The reason why I read your comment that way is because America wasn’t exactly an ardent supporter of Israel in its early days beyond recognizing it first, even going so far as to enforce an arms embargo against it. The UK also enforced this embargo. The most significant support out of Europe came from France, which had very strong ties with Israel, including in particular in regards to both nations’ atomic weapons programs. West Germany became a supporter of the young state starting in the early 1950s, when its Holocaust reparations became a major source of funding (and free imports of vital goods) for the government in Tel Aviv.

                    American Evangelical support of Israel really only started to take off and become a force in American politics in the wake of the Six-Days war, when America, in order to counter Soviet influence in the region, began to back Israel directly. This was also when economic ties started to intensify. Evangelicals, while having voiced support of Zionism earlier (just like more moderate American Christians), more or less rode the coattails of this development.